Justin Taylor (Between Two Worlds) linked to a post by Ray Ortland that is a good reminder for all of us who are Reformed in our theology (I spoke with a potential real estate agent about that this morning). Here is some of what he says:
Paul answered the theological aspects of the Galatian error with solid theology. But the “whiff test” that something was wrong in those Galatian churches was more subtle than theology alone. The problem was also sociological. “They make much of you, but for no good purpose. They want to shut you out, that you may make much of them” (Galatians 4:17). In other words, “The legalists want to ‘disciple’ you. But really, they’re manipulating you. By emphasizing their distinctive, they want you to feel excluded so that you will conform to them.” It’s like chapter two of Tom Sawyer. Remember how Tom got the other boys to whitewash the fence for him? Mark Twain explained: “In order to make a man or boy covet a thing, it is only necessary to make the thing difficult to attain.” Paul saw it happening in Galatia. But the gospel makes full inclusion in the church easy to attain. It re-sets everyone’s status in terms of God’s grace alone. God’s grace in Christ crucified, and nothing more. He alone makes us kosher. He himself.
So, while I agree with J.I. Packer and Roger Nicole that “Calvinism is the gospel” (meaning the most accurate understanding of the biblical gospel), I need to be wary of my little inner Pharisee which tends to make that a litmus test. I have been fortunate to be friends with people from a variety of Christian ‘traditions’, and continue to be. But sometimes my inner Pharisee appears and I try to convert them to Reformed theology instead of waiting for Jesus to sort all that out. Oh, I should be willing to discuss it with them but I shouldn’t feel the need to argue them into it. (Apologies to all those I’ve done this to … there are more of you than I probably know.) One phrase I used in seminary was “you don’t have to understand gravity for it to still have an effect on you.” It is the same way with grace- we don’t always have a good understanding of the “hows” but what matters is that it has effected someone savingly. The understanding will come later (sometimes MUCH later). And that goes for me too, for all of us have blind spots in our theology. But if they grasp Jesus by faith- they are Christians, part of his church, body and bride.
Calvinists are not alone in this. I’ve been pressured by Pentacostals and charismatics. Credo baptists and dispensationalists. KJV only folks and Psalm singers. Get the picture? We can have our convictions, but when it results in breaking fellowship with people because they don’t toe the line, or we berate them for our differences- something is really wrong with us. Our identity has shifted from Christ himself to our theological distinctive. That is idolatry!
Once, in a moment of insight, a counseling professor told me to “be kind to yourself.” Jesus says the same thing to his church, his body and his bride.
Well, in my personal opinion…Calvinism is Christianity gone wrong. How much is actually Christian in what is taught by them. A lot. John Calvin himself was going line by line with the bible, but it seems as though he grabbed on to certain thoughts without taking in the big picture. The teachings really are a scripture/man-made mixture. Do they teach that the elect are just the “few” that God wants to save and the rest have no hope? From listening to a couple of Calvinist…that’s what I got from what they are saying. God’s elect in the really biblical sense are those who accept God, those who accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior…not just a special few. If that was the case…Jesus would have died in vain. God wants us ALL there. I don’t get the since that is what Calvinists believe. It IS in the bible, so why don’t they believe it. More into the teachings of John Calvin than the other JC? The big JC. Jesus!
I’m not sure you really understand what Calvinists believe. We believe that all Jesus wants there, will get there because He gets them there. If Jesus died for people who end up in hell, then his death is in vain: inefficient and impotent.
We hold to the dual authorship of Scripture: God inspiring real people he shaped to faithfully deliver his message in their historical circumstances and thru their personality. It is not a mixture: this is Paul, and this is the Spirit…. Just like the hypostatic union of Christ: he acts as a person, not here he’s divine and here he’s human. Fully God & fully human united forever without mixture or confusion. The Scriptures are fully divine and fully human united forever.
People such as myself are Calvinists because we believe that this heritage most accurately represents the teaching of Scripture. Like those from other Christian bodies, we are sinners and imperfect, as well as our understanding of the Bible.
I greatly appreciate this post. I have found that although theology is great and awesome, it can sometime be a distraction from the One who is really important, Jesus.
However, I feel that it is intellectually dishonest to say that “If Jesus died for people who end up in hell, then his death is in vain: inefficient and impotent.” I truly feel that this is only a man-made reasoning tool that tricks people into believing Calvinism, not by the truth in Scripture, but by making people feel that they will be somehow be less holy / obedient to God / etc. if they do not believe it. The same thing goes with the whole “people in their spiritual immaturity believe that man (insert non-calvinist doctrine here)”
I say this because if you look at 2 Peter, you can clearly see that people will reject Christ, even though He bought them…unless we are to believe that false prophets are among the elect….
1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
Anyways, I dont want to be negative, cause I actually really…and I mean really enjoyed your post.
With love
YBIC
The 2nd Peter passage is a tough one, alluding to the Wilderness generation, bought by the Passover lamb, but forsaking their God.
Yes, there are false professors of faith, and false teacher in the church.
I don’t have the time to dive deeper into that one right now.
Calvinists have historically been at the forefront of those arguing for the authority of Scripture, and allowing clearer passages of Scripture to interpret less clear passages of Scripture. We try to shun subjecting Scripture to human reason and philosophy. So, I’m not sure I buy your arguments.
I would say that sound living is produced by sound teaching, which is accordance with the gospel- which Paul teaches in 1 Timothy. So, sound doctrine is necessary, though insufficient. The work of the Spirit, applying the work of Christ is also necessary.
If Jesus died for people who end up in hell, then his death is in vain: inefficient and impotent.
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Arminians teach that if even one person is saved then Jesus did not die in vain.
We don’t get to grade God’s ‘performance”–He does.
Also, cavman huge swathes of scripture make no sense when given a Calvinist reading. I still have not gotten over this “Secret Will” thing to be honest.
Has that ever given you pause also?
What we say is that Christ’s death if efficacious- it actually accomplished something. He died for His sheep, He died for His bride the church to actually redeem that body of people. Arminianism teaches a potential salvation that rests upon our choice.
I could say that many passages of Scripture make no sense from an Arminian perspective. The question is, which of us is taking those passages in its proper context and interpreting them properly.
While God has a “secret will” [what actually happens, since Scripture teaches He is sovereign over history], what we are to pay attention to is His revealed will. We are not supposed to naval gaze, but by faith obey His revealed will. That should certainly be the focus/emphasis.
Happened to (providentially) stumble on your blog. Interesting read.
I get your point about how Calvinists (Reformers) can be somewhat legalistic in what we want others to believe, which is why I have tried to shift my focus on what I hear my fellow believers say about Christ when discussing our faith. Any time we discuss our faith, we should be looking to the cross and the work that Jesus performed there in His death. There at that one moment in history we clearly see the whole of God – His justice, His mercy, His forgiveness, His jealousness, His wrath, and His love. And when talking with a fellow belier, I look for balance in what is said and try to guide the discussion accordingly. The ultimate outcome of Calvary (mercy) is incomplete without both love and wrath.
As to your comments about distinctives – sadly, in this day and age, the “distinctive” of Reformed theology is its willingness to preach sin and salvation together as its central tenet. I see no other system of theology that’s willing to point the finger of blame at man while simultaneously acknowledging God for His good work of salvation. We desperately seek a way for man to redeem himself, whether it’s by choice or good works. Neither is able to save. Only the blood of Christ that was freely shed on our behalf can do that.
In your response to the post made by “Jesus and then me” you note the sufficiency of Christ’s work on the cross for the salvation of the sinner. Let me add to what you said by noting that if Jesus died for someone who is going to Hell then God would be punishing two people for the sins of just one man.
Thanks for your post.
Arminianism teaches a potential salvation that rests upon our choice.
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I would argue that the Bible teaches that in John 3:16. “Whosoever believes…” and all that.
Christ’s death affords salvation to all who choose to believe.
This power of choice is given to us by God’s grace–we don’t muster it up of ourselves.
God’s sacrifice is not useless because some people reject it? Who are we to judge uselessness? What percentage of people must be saved, under a “free-will” system, for God not to be deemed a failure?
Both Calvinists and Arminians agree that God doesn’t have to save anybody and that His decision to offer a means of salvation was purely of His own making.
However, Calvinists believe that human autonomy reduces God’s sovereignty. Arminians believe that the idea that God’s sovereignty can be reduced is pure nonsense.
And the difference is in how both define “sovereignty”.
Calvinists believe that God does what He wants, when He wants and how He wants and that everyone else just has to deal with it. Any deviation from that path is supposedly a sign of weakness and subservience on His part.
Arminians believe that God can do what He wants, when and how he wants but that He doesn’t always do that because He’s secure in His own identity. He made us and could control us like puppets but He wants to have a genuine relationship with us and is willing to risk rejection for it. True worship and praise comes form a heart of genuine gratitude not someone who has been programmed to do so.
Ultimately God will put a stop to all the nonsense and so in that sense the offer is not open-ended. in the end God’swill will be done. He alone will reign supreme and sin will be stamped out but He graciously gives us an opportunity to choose (and the commensurate ability to do so as well).
Also one might ask:
Why does He want to have a genuine relationship with us? And the answer is because of who He is! We love Him because He first loved us!
There is nothing about us that makes God want to love us. We have no merits. God chose to love us by His own Self and for His own reasons.
You are correct, God doesn’t have to save anyone. His election of individuals to salvation (yeah, the Bible uses that word, and predestination) is not based on anything in or about the person (see Unconditional Election in any defense of Calvinism).
the question is: does God save those he sets out to save, or is any potential salvation at the “mercy” of our wills? I say he saves all He sets out to save. The instrumental means he has ordained in that process is faith. You say he sets out to save everybody, but does not. I believe in an accomplished salvation, and you seem to hold to a potential salvation.
I’m not interested in beating a dead horse. Have you read John Owen’s The Death of Death in the Death of Christ? If not, please do (or at least Packer’s introductory essay). Owen has not been refuted, but ignored.
Well, I’ve been looking at that second Peter passage lately, and well, not to sound like a jerk, but it can’t mean that Jesus died for everyone. Yeah there is other verses that would point to maybe God loving everyone like John 3:16, but this verse just wont do it. First off, the word for master here or Lord in others translations is Despotes. The word for Jesus is Kurios. This is talking about God, not Jesus. You can see the same thing in Jude 4 where it’s talking about Jesus and God in the same passage. This is important because no where else is God considered the payment for our sins. God wasn’t human, you need a human sacrifice to pay for human sins.
The other word here to look at is bought, if it is not Jesus buying the sinners salvation, then what else could it be. It had me stumped for a bit, until i found this
Deuteronomy 32:6 Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
When you buy something, you establish ownership. What i beleive he is saying here is God owns you, yet you still disobey him.
And yes i do agree whole heartedly with what your writing. I have been a Calvanist for about a year, before i was a four pointer i guess. As soon as i found this doctrine, i, to say the least, acted foolishly. I pushed it in people’s face. I’ve learned the most important thing to remember is love. Now yes, depending on what doctrine you have will greatly change who God loves, but still, in any doctrine, Love must come first. “Knowledge puffs up” so you must be incredibly careful
I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:
Search all day long, just don’t become puffed up.