Justin Childers (Cross-Eyed) came across this in his reading.
“We have even heard it asserted that those who lived before the coming of Christ do not belong to the church of God! We never know what we shall hear next, and perhaps it is a mercy that these absurdities are revealed one at a time, in order that we may be able to endure their stupidity without dying of amazement” (Vol. 15, 8).
Keep in mind, dear readers, that when Spurgeon said this, dispensationalism was an innovative doctrinal position and interpretive method put forth by John Nelson Darby. Read this through Spurgeon’s eyes and time frame, not the 21st century glasses in which dispensationalism is the dominant theological view in western Christianity.
What is telling to me is that the NT authors violate the interpretive method of dispensationalism. They repeatedly apply promises given to Israel to the “church”. The Letter to the Hebrews is among the most troublesome for dispensationalists. One passage in particular that throws a serious monkey wrench into the idea is the very last verse of chapter 11. The numerous Old Testament saints listed in the “Hall of Faith” found there are not complete without the Jewish Christians (and us) to whom the letter is written. This simple notion undermines the notion of a two different peoples of God, namely Israel and the Church (both Jew & Gentile). This interpretive method is an absurdity precisely because it violates the Bible’s method of interpreting itself.
btw: I gather my info on dispensationalism from a long history of interacting with them, having once been one, and recently reading Charles Ryrie’s Dispensationalism Today. A bit dated but probably the most succint description by an advocate of traditional dispensationalism prior to the advent of progressive dispensationalism.
Cavman Considers 
Good post, thank you.
A. W. Pink on Dispensationalism
“During the palmy days of the Puritans considerable attention was given to the subject of the covenants, as their writings evince, particularly the works of Usher, Witsius, Blake, and Boston. But alas, with the exception of a few high Calvinists, their massive volumes fell into general neglect, until a generation arose who had no light thereon. This made it easier for certain men to impose upon them the crudities and vagaries, and make their poor dupes believe a wonderful discovery had been made in the rightly dividing of the word of truth. These men shuffled Scripture until they arranged the passages treating of the covenants to arbitrarily divide time into “seven dispensations” and partitioned off the Bible accordingly. How dreadfully superficial and faulty their findings are appear from the popular (far too popular to be of much value—Luke 16:15!) Scofield Bible, where no less than eight covenants are noticed, and nothing is said about the everlasting covenant!
If some think we have exaggerated the ignorance which now obtains upon this subject, let them put the following questions to their best-informed Christian friends, and see how many can give satisfactory answers. What did David mean when he said, Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation (1 Sam. 23:5? What is meant by The secret of the Lord is with them that fear him, and he will show them his covenant (Ps. 25:14)? What does the Lord mean when He speaks of those who take hold of my covenant (Isa. 56:6)? What does God intend when He says to the Mediator: As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant, I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water? To what does the apostle refer when he says, That the covenant, that was confirmed before of God is (or “to”) Christ (Gal. 3:17)?” Divine Covenants
Dear brother, forgive my lack of understanding your comments, but are you saying that there are no dispensations and that Israel and the Church are one?
Dispensationalism as a system was formed in the 1800’s. Covenants, not dispensations, are found in Scripture and are the organizing principle of redemptive history. So, yes.
In Romans 11, we see that believing Gentiles are brought into the true Israel. This is in fulfillment of many OT prophecies as the nations come under the Davidic king.
If it is the case that Israel and the church are the same then why don’t we perform animal sacrifices, have a priesthood and an inheratence consisting of an actual nation on earth? Thanks for you time.
I believe The Epistle to the Hebrews addresses all of those issues. Those things were the shadow of which Christ is the substance or reality (see also the end of Colossians 2). They pointed to the ultimate Priest whose once for all time sacrifice really takes away sin. Those things that were made obsolete soon passed away (AD 70 with the Fall of Jerusalem). Jesus’ kingdom, like the new temple, is spiritual in nature crossing borders and ethnic groups. But they are in Christ who is the true Israel who succeeded where national Israel failed.
So, according to you, the commands of God to Israel were teachings of men?
No. They were shadows of the substance (see also Heb. 10). The commands of men that Paul refers to there were similar to the ones Jesus mentions (Mt. 15) that some teachers added. Col. 2 address both the ceremonial law (shadows) and “regulations” which went beyond Scripture.
As those who have received the substance, Christ, we should no longer cling to the shadows. They are obsolete, and Heb. 10 anticipated their removal which happened in 70 AD. Christ is the new temple (Jn. 2) and we who are in Christ are part of it (Eph. 2 & 1 Peter 2).
Ephesians 3v14-16 in the king James says “For this reason I bow. my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, whom the whole family in the heavens and on earth is named…”
The Greek word that is translated “whole” is “pas” but in the original it is without the article it means every variety. So correct translation reads “every family “.( See Vines Old &New Testament word dictionary) you can’t argue with the greek. .
Also read Romans 11
What is the difference between the kingdom of God and the mystery of the church(the assembly) in Colosians1v 24 to 27
I was once a Dispensationalist and has since abandoned the system because i felt it cannot be defended at all. I would like to point out that the church has never been a mystery as written by Paul in all the new testament. Going back into the Old testament, the Hebrews, Jews later on we all aware that the gentiles will be blessed. (Read Gen.12-18). Every Hebrew knows this fact. That is not the problem of the Hebrews or Jew. What they did not know was how the gentiles are going to be blessed. That was the mystery. For some reason I find it so deceptive for dispensationalism to ascribe the mystery concept of the church to passages like Eph 3:3-6. I was given the verse to prove the concept that the church was a mystery as a young Christian and i just accepted it without question after all who am I to question old Christian teachers. But really, does the text say it? No, what the text associated the mystery was the nagging question every Hebrew and Jew in the old testatment had in their minds? How the Gentiles are going to be blessed? This was not revealed. This is the question that Paul answered. – Fellowheirs, same body, partakers of the same promises in Christ. In other words equal with the believing Jew. It is interesting to note that Christ himself also corroborated the idea of one body in John 10:14-16. Very damming to the dispensational system. Let me quote verse 16 of John 10. “And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.” I do not know why dispensationalist continue to rabidly defend a system that at the outset was put together without the guidance of the apostles doctrine (Acts 2:42). I ready somewhere that dispensationalism started when Darby was recuperating from a broken leg or ankle perhaps and that it was on thes occasion while reading Isaiah 32 or 33 I cannot be sure – gave him the idea of the two people of God revelation. What Darby should have done was consult the doctrines of the apostles and call into question his ideas if they did not fit. We christians are not at liberty to interpret the Old and New outside of the Apostles doctrine. We are to confine our understanding according to how they read the Old testament because they were given special revelation which will never happen again. Darby on the other hand declared himself like unto one of the apostles able to interpret the Old out of his own wild imagings.
Dispensation can also be translated administration, simply a new way of doing things, If there is no new way of doing things then we still should drop everything and go back to Judaism,keeping the Sabbath, keeping the Law for righteousness, with a levitical priesthood and perform animal sacrifices! A mystery is only so to the uninitiated. And actually try reading Darby’s work instead of listening to gossip!
One covenant, many administrations. Covenant theology recognizes, in keeping with Scripture, that the sacrificial law has been fulfilled by Christ. To offer sacrifices for sin, even “memorial” ones, is an affront to the work of Christ. Dispensationalism not only sees different administrations, but goes far beyond that, failing to recognize the continuity that is there.
Also John 10v16 reads in the the Greek “There are other sheep that are not of this fold. I must also lead these and they will here my voice; and there will be one flock, one shepherd. Different words in the Greek!
Yes, ONE flock.
I’m not sure I see the point regarding Eph. 3. Romans 11 is a great place to see that the Gentiles are brought into Israel. There are not 2 peoples of God (see also Eph. 2). The church is part of the kingdom.
BTW: in the Greek translation of the OT, ekklesia is used to describe the assembly of Israel. Israel was … the church.
Try Wrongly Dividing the People of God? by Keith Mathison.
The point is that there are many families named of the Father, not just one! Ekklesia means called out ones, It is translated erroneosly in the KJV, “church”.
The word says “And they shall all be taught of God”.If God teaches you something then you wont give it up.
Romans 11 shows that Israel will obtain the promises made to them by Jehovah.”For the gifts and calling of God are not subject to repentance,” An olive tree has many branches!
Many branches does not make many peoples. As Eph. 2 makes clear, we are brought into one people. Christ has ONE bride, not many.
That God does keep his promises does not necessitate returning to the Mosaic administration of the covenant, nor an earthly millennium. It means they are joined to Jesus, and are sons of Abraham just like us (Galatians 3), the true Israel (Galatians 6).
What do you
think of colossians 1 v 24-27, namely the mystery of Christ and the assembly?
Here is my sermon on the text:
http://desertspringspca.org/sermons/christ-our-hope-and-glory
Comment on the Bride of Christ and Wife of Jehovah
Jesus is Jehovah. So, in Dispensational theology Jesus has two wives, two peoples. Jesus only has one Bride: the Assembly, ekklesia is used for Israel in the Septuagint. Gentiles are added onto the true vine with the coming of Christ. One people = one bride.
Your guest (Damien King) seem to refuse to understand the obvious on this issue. I have encountered numerous Dispensationalist on this very issue and they will defend their position all the way to absurdity. There is simply no teaching in the entire NT on this heretical concept of two people of God. Romans 2:28 a true Jew, Ephesian chapter 2-3 says one body, John 10:11-18 one flock and one shepherd, Romans 11, the grafting and pruning principle etc all teach one people of God. It is difficult to teach anybody who at the outset has already refused to believe no matter how truthful the explanation. Reformed theology believes that there is a distinction between Israel and the gentiles but no division in the NT. Just like there is a distinction between white Americans, African Americans, Asian Americans, etc. -distinction but no separation. The Dispensationalist agenda is not the “distinction” but “Separation” or “Division” of the people of God. This is their fatal error. By creating this separation and hard division, they have neutered the monkey at the back of all Jews as to their need of salvation in Christ, where if they do not believe, they will be lost. The very hallmark of God’s design for the salvation of the Jews by way of Jealousy is gone. They cannot be provoke to jealousy today because under the Dispensational scheme they don’t have to. They are as right with God today whether they believe in Christ or not. They will have their kingdom, their land, and all the material blessings because God has bounded himself in a promise. On the contrary, God orchestrated by providence at least 3 things that would compel the Jew to crawl back to the true Messiah in Christ. 1. The kingdom was taken away from them (not postponed!) (Matt. 21:43). This means that their future hope of a better tomorrow is gone without Christ. 2. “Behold, your house is being left to you desolate” (Matt 23:38). Not only is their hope of a better tomorrow gone, their very existence day by day would be bleak and pale. 3. “from now on you will not see Me until you say “Blessed is He who come in the Name of the Lord” (Matt. 23:39) which means that God has shut His face and heaven from them until they acknowledge Christ as the true Messiah. These 3 things were carefully crafted by God in order to constrict their existence into bitterness, hopelessness and provoke them to jealousy as they see the Christian church with all its blessings from God. This is a peculiar design exclusively for them as part of the way of Salvation. And what does the Dispensationalist do. Take away this substance that would cause them to jealousy by teaching that God and ethnic Israel are still in good terms and that there is nothing wrong with them as far as their relationship with God is concern. The kingdom is simply postponed, their lives are not left desolate after all they have the land back in 1948, and that God is smiling at them today in approval. No wonder there is not a Jew today who is jealous nor provoke to jealousy. In fact they are all the more proud of the Jewishness and never in the history of their existence are they more proud in their pursue of Judaism. Thanks to the heretical teaching of the Dispensationalist. Surely at the end of the age, the blood of all these Jews will be upon their hand (Ezk 33).
note: Sorry if my english is a bit off. English is my second language. I was not born here. I am Asian American who came here in my adult life.
can anyone point me to spurgeons books ,qoutes on the subject