While I was in Tampa last night I passed Church Without Walls International, home of TV Personality/Pastor Paula White. It certainly is in an area that seriously needs the gospel. Around the corner there are a ton of strip clubs (a common problem in Tampa which is part of why I can’t stand Tampa, the utter spiritual darkness there).
On a whim I Yahooed her and found her MySpace site. Here is how she is described:
” Paula White is a Life Coach, Motivational Speaker, Pastor, Preacher, Author, Humanitarian, Philanthropist, Teacher, TV Personality, Wife and Mother. Beneath her unassuming beauty, lies a gentle and girlish charm. In talking with her it becomes apparent that she understands, shes been there, and she knows how to get out! Her story is one of tragedy and triumph, poverty and prosperity. She has been called a Phoenix, having risen up from the ashes of tumultuous early years to dedicate her life to pulling others out of their circumstances so that they can focus in on Gods unique plan of destiny for their lives.
“Today, Paula White is an inspiration to millions around the world who seek Gods love. She co-pastors the 22,000-member Without Walls International Church in Tampa with her husband Randy, hosts an international television program, spearheads humanitarian efforts worldwide, all while traveling the world fulfilling her mission and call to Transform Lives, Heal Hearts and Win Souls. ”
The site is chock full of pictures of her posing and lots of quotes by her. I just found it odd. But then again…
There was this article from the Tampa Tribune on the pastoral pair. He’s the bishop, but she seems to be the one who is front and center. This photo is interesting as well. He’s got a priest’s garb, and she’s wearing a tailored coat & skirt. An odd juxaposition.
Ministry has been very, very good to them. The Tribune reports, “They travel in a $1.9 million business jet. They own a home they purchased for $2.1 million on Bayshore Boulevard and a $3.5 million Trump Tower condo in New York. Randy rents a waterfront villa in Malibu, Calif. ”
The last section alludes to the increasingly distant relationship the two have. They spend little to no time together. They seem to be going in two different directions. He’s been looking into “purchasing a ministry”, yes, simony still exists!
The husband of the 41 year-old grandmother admits they both had plastic surgery. This is apparently a new status symbol among the health & wealth set. So much for the outer man wasting away while the inner man grows… people are being completely sucked in to the culture and its corrupt values.
It is quite the sad and frightening article. I’m not sure what people find so appealing about all this. It sounded similar to my experience at Benny Hinn’s church one Wednesday evening when he was still in Orlando. There were 3 offerings in 90 minutes, and no sermon yet. I left, I had to study… they may still be taking offerings. It was part of an assignment to attend a worship service out of my comfort zone. This scene remains outside of my comfort zone. It seems so out of touch with Scripture, and people continue to support their extravagent lifestyles. May God have mercy on us.
Cavman Considers 
I have seen her on TV, she is very charismatic. she is a self proclaimed prophet with new words of wisdom from God.
as with joyce, benny and others, we as an amarican people flock to ‘christian leaders’ like her. sad, really.
I attend Without Walls, Paula White’s church that you mentioned. I just want to clarify the condo with Trump Tower’s to prove that you should do more research before you talk about someone….that Trump Tower condo was a gift to Paul White from Donald because she is his Pastor. If he has billions of dollars, why shouldn’t he give this to his Pastor? Wouldn’t you?
I didn’t make that claim- that was from the Tampa Tribune.
Since when does Trump live in Tampa? That’s a broad definition of being a pastor.
Paul mentored Timothy and they didn’t live in the same city… Maybe it is you that is narrow and not the boradness of the ladies definition of a Pastor…. If I am a father am I only that when I am close?
David
David,
Prior to mentoring Timothy from afar, Timothy traveled with Paul for quite some time. Paul then recognized Timothy as a co-laborer, as well as son in his faith.
I am a good father, from a distance, when my child has grown up. Ask any divorced dad who is involved in their child’s life… it is intensely difficult to really shape the lives of their kids. It takes being there, being watched, not just phone calls.
Has Trump even affirmed this “relationship”? This sounds similar to the Rick Warren-Robert Murdach pastoral relationship.
I’ll have to side with Cavman on this one.
Rick Warren was name-dropping that he was Ruppert Murdach’s pastor. That is until he found out it was going to demand more of him, then he and Saddleback are not only back-peddling but distancing themselves from Murdach!
Donald Trump is going to submit to Paula White’s direction regarding what is godly for his life? Oh please!!
Cavman, if I had not injured my knee….
Interesting, God is so good to me. I had watch and heard Paula from a distance many times. She really did not attact me other then being fashionable, tailored, small and cute. In growing in dicernment, I simply could not understand why thousands of people were so excited about this Pastor yet I could not hear anything from her that nourished my spirit. Finally, I saw her close up in a one on one conversation an watch with my natural eye and ears until the Holy Spirit took its place.
it was clear, there is no annointing. Like many others like her. I saw her face and it was certainly different, I discerned that she had plastic surgery, yet it was so well done only the Holy Spirit eyes could really see the marks clearly. Now, does it really matter?
I did hear her say early in her ministry that she gave a offering of $10,000 to I believe it was (a well established ministry with wealth beyond any onewealthy Pastor we know of, even Bennie Hinn. I discerned that this was a ticket price you had to pay in order to get into the club. If the club can get a return on its investment you are let it with of course “a fee” How could they not get the return with all Paula’s gifts talents and abilities?
Okay……now, the fact is……She has accountibility, the monies of her ministry are being disbursed. Even though to targeted areas of need. Now the problem is MOTIVE OF THE HEART. She will face Gods judgement of course if there is any corruption of the heart. And what are we to do? Those of us who see in the spirit? We check ourselves and consider being sharp in spirit/prayer/and allow the Holy Spirit to transform us into “Living Epistles” so that we may speak the truth of the word to every lost soul. Anyone on your street not saved? Pray, get back to real prayer without form or fashion. Cry out to God if your spirit is grieved as mine is and allow Him to direct your prayer that the Holy Spirit can speak to you that you may minier words to anyone even those who question Pastors like Paula White.
And remember, satan comes as an angel of light. He can use anyone, even in the church pulpit and pews.
May God have mercy on all of us.
There is an unfortunate postscript to the Paula
White ministry:
http://www.tbo.com/news/nationworld/MGBA6S84Q5F.html
This of course happens to many people in our society. The sad and unfortunate part is that Paula and her husband need a season to step back from the ministry, and yet in the article there doesn’t seem to be any indication that they are going to do so.
[…] 24th, 2007 by cavman On my earlier post about Paula White, Bill Reichart left a link about Randy and Paula getting a divorce. In that post, based on the […]
While the Lord has been dealing with me personally concerning the state of the church today and where we are: the glamour, glitz and “commercialism” of it all…should we not just be praying for our brothers and sisters in the gospel? Since they are the leaders on the forefront right now and have the ear of a large population of the Body of Christ, I venture to say that the majority of those on this site have not reached that level of noteriety, and therefore have no idea what the demonic temptation and influences are at that level- Judge not lest ye be judged. Should we really sit here and ridicule, criticize and judge? Or would God be pleased if we were to pray that if they are doing something unscrupulous (which only God will judge), then should we not pray for them and for those following them? Should we not keep the Body of Christ lifted up instead of ridiculing and pulling down. Isn’t there enough division, criticism and separation within the Body as well? Is God even pleased with this discussion? Are we living by Kingdom Principles and standards ourselves? All I am saying is, “He who is without sin, cast the first stone”.
As a Pastor, My job is to rebuke and exhort with all longsuffering. As a father of three children, It is my job to correct them while at the same time loving them. If I fail to correct errors as a pastor, not only will the member continue in error but the congregation will follow the uncorrected example. As a father of three I must practice the same. Most of the New Testament is a letter written to correct the errors of the Church. You cannot build up anything if you do not tear down walls first. The Christ that I know would teach directly to the errors that have occured. Rachel if they are not rebuked and corrected properly other people will fall into the same trap. You know Rachel, accountability is a major problem with us independent pastors. I have seen it happen personally being involved in an independent ministry how one can become answerable only to ones self. What’s sad is the White’s are moving on with “Gods” ministry. Or are they….
this appears to be the sin of;
self.
the parties in questions are not thinking of others, of how what they do will effect others.
they are not putting the good of the whole [congregation] ahead of their selfish desires.
as a people its not good, as pastors its even worse.
we don’t need to judge, even tho it does say [in the bible] we should judge in certain circumstances, because we are all sinners.
But, we are to discern actions, motives and lifestyles of others and especially others in positions of ‘authority’ to see if they line up with the WHOLE counsel of God [from the bible]
if they don’t ~ then we are to ;
2 thess 3:6In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching[a] you received from us
and
Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. 15Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.
You will find on the news webpage in the comment section most of the sane people were saying, they need to take a break from their ministry and work on their personal/home life/marriage before continueing on ‘preaching’ the good news.
I agree.
Paul would not and could not tell the churches in the new testament how to live and who to look to if he himself did not do the same and live the example for them.
Lyn-is THAT what they anounced in church after the article came out in the tampa trib? I went there several years ago and they were justifing their greed then for the church’s ears. Do you expect them to get up and say “I spent 3.8 million $ on a condo”? NOT when they are begging for money from people who live in the projects of Tampa!! Use your head-think about it-it is all about business. IF donald DID give her that condo I am sure it was a business deal-no doubt!
Rachael,
You wrote:…should we not just be praying for our brothers and sisters in the gospel?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Yes we should pray Rachael, but is that all we should be doing?
Did Elijah just pray for the Prophets of Baal?
Did Paul just pray for the Judaizers in Galatia?
Did Hosea just pray for the idolators and promiscuous Israelites?
You also wrote:
Since they are the leaders on the forefront right now and have the ear of a large population of the Body of Christ…,
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Precisely Rachael, that is why Randy and Paula are so extremely dangerous! Their church reveals it is full of naive, biblically illitrate, ignorant professing Christians.
Randy and Paula are the blind leading the blind, and this has been witnessed and documented for some time.
Thirdly you state:
Judge not lest ye be judged. Should we really sit here and ridicule, criticize and judge?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Rachael, is it permissible for you to judge us? You are judging us declaring we are in the wrong. Only God will judge and you have no right to say if we are right or wrong.
That is, at least employing your line of faulty reasoning.
Furthermore, I have myself heard Paula wax eloquently [ok hollar in hoarse voice with an “uh” at the end of clauses:
“And God said-uh, Believe and have enough faith-uh, and you will receive many times over-uh. If you just have enough faith-uh, God will repay you many times over-uh. Somebody say, Amen-uh. Thank you-uh. Praise Jesus-uh”.
As I was saying before having a Paula flashback, I have heard Paula screaming at those with whom she did not agree. She was rebuking them, and asking everyone to Amen. She was by your line of reasoning, Judging.
Face it, Rachael, you don’t want to hear it, so you misuse Mt. 7:1 while judging us, telling us we are sinning to make a discernment regarding Paula and Randy.
By the way, Rachael, you need to read the next 6 verses and you may gain a better understanding, seeing that Jesus himself calls for his audience to make judgments, be discerning, make determinations, be keen in making discriminations in determining whop are the true pigs and dogs of life, vs. what is valuable and pearls in this life.
False prophets appear to talk a good game to some.
That is how they get a following.
But they are to be rebuked and shown to be the frauds they are.
Randy and Paul are another Jim and Tammy, and not surprisingly at all, they have the same theology.
Sometimes people start off in the right track but get deviated by many things. In this couple, I see they started out right. God blessed them. But somewhere in the road it appears that THEIR ministry became priority. And this is the fruit of same. I have been reading Billy Graham’s bio and noted that he and his team began putting safeguards in place. Billy Graham initially would get enough to cover the crusades, and of course a percentage. His family had to eat to. But the turn around came financially as God continued to bless and he was going to take the same percentage as usual. Except this time it was a significant amount of money. It was at that point that he and his team took proactive measures to ensure that he would get paid, but not in a way that would be extremely excessive and a salary was assigned. I think that is wisdom. God does bless beyond our wildest dream, but we as Christians and the leaders need to govern themselves and before things get out of hand put limits. If you don’t put boundaries on yourself and you dont have anyone or you yourself don’t hold yourself accountable, the blessings turn into a curse. I think we all need to be careful saying that these people are false prophets, etc etc. I think it is obvious that they started out well,but have deviated and therefore sin has it’s penalty. David is a good example. While a shepherd he did well, he was obedient, annointed etc. Then in the midst of success when he had it all and if he wanted more all he needed to do was ask, he took matters into his own hands and killed. He could have killed Saul at one time. God had put Saul in his hands to do what he wanted to do; and he would not touch him, but here was a good man, loyal to him and he kills him to cover up his sin with Bathsheba. Was he a false prophet, He lived very ricchly, etc…No he was not a false prophet; in fact he was a man after God’s own heart. Saul didn’t commit the horrific sins David did and yet, he got the ax. God was angry at him… But not at David. So going back to Paula and Randy, and including J. Bynum and her husband. False prophets, not likely. Walking in disobedience and reaping their reward, absolutely! And there by the Grace of God go you and me as well… So, what do we do. Pray they repent as David did over and over again in humility and sincerity of heart. Though they’ll go thru hard times for their disobedience, God is able to restore them and teach them as welll as teach us lessons to live by.
Seems as if a lot of you need to read the Word for yourself. The problem is you. You place these people on pedastals. As if they are people who don’t make mistakes or bad choices. The reality is. They are human. Just becuase they are Christians doesn’t make them perfect. What would you say and how would you feel if you were the one in the lime light. I get so tired of people poking their “opinion” on things that really don’t matter. People get divorced all the time. I am not condoning this divorce, by no means, but it has become a sad reality in our nation. If you ask me, any of you that are attacking Randy or Paula, it says a lot about you. The bible says in Matthew 7:5, Hypocrite, First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the Speck from your brothers…. It is so easy to point the finger at those in high position. We spend to much time worrying abou things that just don’t matter. I know, why am I responding to this blog… I guess I just finally got tired of all of the crap that people write about people in the media. SHUT UP… I bet there is one person on here now, who secretly goes to church and has slept around on their spouse, and sitting here writing comments about someone else. READ THE WORD FOR YOURSELF. Ask God to show you, YOU… I bet you wont like what you see… Grow up… Look at yourself in the mirror… Are you perfect??? Do you make mistakes??? SHUT UP..
What Tanya didn’t say, is that her URL was withoutwall.org
So, what is the log in their eyes that makes them (those who have opinions about what is happening) hypocrites? Are the Whites exempt from answering difficult question, and being accountable? Are only those who raise issues and problems those who are accountable?
Leaders are not perfect. We need to reckon with 1 Timothy 1:15- each leader is the biggest sinner they know. But that was not to stop Timothy from firmly opposing those who taught false doctrine. He was just to do it gently, knowing his own sinfulness.
What should set Christian leaders apart is their willingness to accept correction, humble themselves and admit when they blow it. Is that what we see with the Whites?
oh, and 1 Timothy 5 is pertinent here. 19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. 20 Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning.
Tanya, do you have the faith or anyone you know around that church have the faith to actually trust God more than be blindly loyal to the Whites?
Wow Tanya and Kathy, both lower the bar tremendously when it comes to church leadership. Perhaps this in itself is a revelation that their pastors / teachers have not instructed them regarding such passages as 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1, 1 Corinthians 7, 1 Peter 5.
Kathy appeals to the fact that not everyone is perfect. Thanks Kathy we didn’t know that. But God sets the bar much higher, Kathy.
Tanya, meanwhile bets that we have slept around on our wives. Wow, Tanya, but hate to disappoint you so, as my wife is the only woman to ever laid a hand on my zipper!
Randy, quickly declared that morning that he was going to continue to pastor that church. If Randy is so concerned with Christ’s reputation at the church, then why didn’t Randy meet with the board, stating you need to be concerned with how 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1, 1 Corinthians 7 apply here with me, and I will discuss this with you.
No way. Randy is daring someone to challenge him. He is walking all over these people who don’t have a clue what Scripture even calls for in this situation.
Face it Tanya, you have been deceived like thousands of others by Randy and Paula. They have cashed in millions, still no one over there stands up to them taking God at his Word.
As for us sleeping around because we dare call out hypocrisy when we see it? The strange irony is that who is now guilty of the rash, exaggerated, hypocritical, harsh judgmentalism? Seems it is you who has the log in your own eye and it is much too painful for you to see what is right there under your own nose!
ever hear the song Harper Valley PTA????
i REALLY think thats what this message board is…..HARPER VALLEY
sad………………………..
it goes something like ….
I want to tell you all a story ’bout a Harper Valley widowed wife
Who had a teenage daughter who attended Harper Valley Junior High
Well her daughter came home one afternoon and didn’t even stop to play
She said, “Mom, I got a note here from the Harper Valley P.T.A.”
The note said, “Mrs. Johnson, you’re wearing your dresses way too high
It’s reported you’ve been drinking and a-runnin’ ’round with men and going wild
And we don’t believe you ought to be bringing up your little girl this way”
It was signed by the secretary, Harper Valley P.T.A.
Well, it happened that the P.T.A. was gonna meet that very afternoon
They were sure surprised when Mrs. Johnson wore her mini-skirt into the room
And as she walked up to the blackboard, I still recall the words she had to say
She said, “I’d like to address this meeting of the Harper Valley P.T.A.”
Well, there’s Bobby Taylor sittin’ there and seven times he’s asked me for a date
Mrs. Taylor sure seems to use a lot of ice whenever he’s away
And Mr. Baker, can you tell us why your secretary had to leave this town?
And shouldn’t widow Jones be told to keep her window shades all pulled completely down?
Well, Mr. Harper couldn’t be here ’cause he stayed too long at Kelly’s Bar again
And if you smell Shirley Thompson’s breath, you’ll find she’s had a little nip of gin
Then you have the nerve to tell me you think that as a mother I’m not fit
Well, this is just a little Peyton Place and you’re all Harper Valley hypocrites
No I wouldn’t put you on because it really did, it happened just this way
The day my Mama socked it to the Harper Valley P.T.A.
The day my Mama socked it to the Harper Valley P.T.A.
judge not lest ye be judged,,,,get the logs out of your own eyes and if you REALLY are the people you SAY you are….then pray for our brothers and sisters and each other. dont continue to stand in judgement and try to knock down them down even farther. They right now need the prayers of we brothers and sisters more then ever.
Are they (prayer and admonishment) mutually exclusive?
If I divorce my wife, without biblical grounds, I will be questioned, called to repent and if I don’t defrocked.
I am not a law unto myself.
What some people are pointing out is that the Whites don’t seem to be accountable to anyone, but a law unto themselves. As a result, they are not submitting to biblical standards or conduct, or repenting when they fail to obey God.
If I ever do such things, I hope people won’t defend me but counsel me to repent, humble myself before God and submit myself to some godly people so I can get back on the right track.
Have I missed their repentance (which in this case would include putting the marriage back together by the grace of God)?
What most people don’t think about is how this is an opportunity for them to show that Jesus does transform people, including the very different way we suffer under difficult circumstances. The Spirit produces perseverence, faithfulness, love etc. Most people just want the difficult circumstances to end, and miss opportunities to grow/mature.
Cavman,
What you have posted those posting in support of the White’s just don’t understand.
I concur with you: Prayer and Admonishment are not mutually exclusive.
Paul admonished Peter and yet we find Paul praying for all the churches and the work of the apostles.
Cav, wow, the Pats were awesome today, huh?
They were on the Road against a division rival who was in the playoffs last year, and they looked like they had been steamng all off-season about that blown lead against the Colts.
Man, if they are playing with a vengeance from last year, they are going to be t-u-f-f tuff!!
Yes, fellow readers, I can spell tough; just having some fun.
Thank you Randy (post #19).
In addition, what’s wrong with these people having money? I bet if you saw their giving in proportion to their income, you would see that they give much. They’re feeding, clothing and helping people far above what you and I are. Would you rather they be poor and not make the difference that they’ve made? You might ought to be quiet and hope that you don’t ever get into a situation where you need the benevolence that they have so willingly dished out.
And as far as the “prosperity gospel” as its so often called, the only reason people have a problem with it is because they are greedy and don’t want to give.
I’m proof positive that giving works. I raised two teenagers, as a single mother, on an income of $300.00 per month and saw God do miracles. He met all of our needs, without the help of the government. People who had no idea of my situation sent me money and brought groceries. I didn’t advertise my needs, I just tithed and gave special offerings as the Lord led. And because of my obedience God abundantly supplied. Don’t knock giving until you’ve tried it. I’m still not rich by the world’s standards, but God always comes through. I still tithe and give offerings and my income has increased tremendously.
They may be making a mistake, but thats not for us to say. If they are “false prophets,” and all the other things that they’ve been called, then God will take them down. He doesn’t need our help.
Hi brothers and sisters in Christ,
Like many of you, the behavior of our church leadership is leaving me with a great sense of responsibility. We are left to discern the scriptures for ourselves and take up the mantle of ministerial responsibility in our communities. When any leader, parent, or boss drops the ball and shows no concern for the people they’ve influenced, we can all feel a little dejected, rejected, confused, angry, etc. We are looking for answers. The answer is Jesus Christ. I believe Jesus corrected his followers in the scriptures according to the motive of their hearts and I believe He is the same yesterday, today and forever. Though the Whites, Hawkins, Cooks and others allow the naughtiness of their hearts (arrogance) to deceive them into thinking they are in control of all this, I believe God is in control and the sin is being exposed. It feels like an Earthquake in the Church ( I live in California) but really God is putting things into order. Just hold on and trust Him to keep all of us safe in Him. We must not weep for Saul and trust that God is raising up a new King(s) in our midst. He is faithful. The truly repentant may be restored or we may see entirely new faces. Either way, we must be ready to receive God’s annointed.
In 2004 after ministering in Nigeria and Liberia I came back to what I thought was the safe harbor of my local church to find out that my then apostle/pastor had took his associate pastor’s wife into an affair that resulted in the birth of a son. The church located in Oceanside, California lost all of its true leadership because the pastor refused to admit publically his sin. Even after his wife divorced him, he continues to pastor the church all the while deceiving our community. He shows no remorse for his actions and has arrogantly appeared on interviews to sell his newest book The Grace Factor. He calls all people who dare to hold him accountable for his actions “religious hounds.” He has succesfully put himself in the position of the victim further weaving a web of deception to the few followers that remain. Our church (Ambassador Family Church) is still being held hostage by this imposter. This pastor was in ministerial relationship with both Rick Hawkins and Paula White.
It just seems like things are getting worse. But really, the whole leaven is being removed. God sees the big picture and will be just in His judgement.
In the mean time, we can not turn on each other. We are all hurting and grieving the losses we individually and corporately feel.
Be good to each other. Speak softly we want to be able to hear the Lord’s call to action. We must be patient.
In Christ’s love,
Susanne
These problems are SO prevalent in churches across the country. And I hear the same justification constantly.
“Don’t judge, you’re not supposed to speak ill of the “man of God”, They GIVE more that their INCOME(?!), the “Man of God” SHOULD drive a Bentley, along with a plethora of erroneous teachings such as “Jesus was rich” used to justify lust and greed.
I pray for each person defending these people, burying their doubts. Having legitimate doubts about leadership is not wicked as you may have been told. It is DISCERNMENT.
I IMPLORE YOU TO ASK QUESTIONS. If you cannot walk into the church office in love and ask for a specific accounting of salaries, expenses and just HOW THOSE PASTORAL LOVE OFFERINGS are accounted for, where pastor got the money to support that business venture, etc. and get honest answers without being chastised for questioning the “Man of God”, then RUN, RUN RUN!!! A Good leader would be proud of you for being faithful to God first!
And PLEASE, for the love of God, the poor sheep, and the ministers you follow, read the Bible. Leadership MUST have their house in order. Jesus wasn’t rich. His disciples were sick and imprisoned, and martyred for crying out loud! It was the deceitfulness of wealth and the cares of this world that choked out the *SEED*, which is the word of God!
Please read TITUS through the first chapter.
I hope change is on the horizon. I will not continue to support churches that tarnish God’s name for money. I hope others do the same, even though it may be painful.
There are some more things in this whole discussion that need to be kept in balance.
1. A worker is worth his hire- as Paul taught.
2. He also taught that greed is idolatry and the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.
I do find something quite improper about a pastor, called to tend the flock, living at a standard of living far superior to the flock.
I applaud Rick Warren on this account. He returned all the salary paid to him because his book royalties became so big. He refused to place an unnecessary burden on the people.
I applaud John Piper, who took a different approach. He rejects the royalties on his books, using them to fund Desiring God ministries. What a great ministry to offer free sermon downloads!
2 men, 2 approaches so they were not seduced by riches and continued to serve God’s people. They didn’t use their money to fund lavish lifestyles.
This brings up another point that Jennifer raised. Often these ‘ministries’ are secretive about how funds are used. Our church is completely above board. We are accountable, not just to God, but His people and the civil government. Churches and ministries that don’t make financial information available do that for a reason. There is something they don’t want people to know. If you can’t see a budget… get out, run, AND find a place that is filled with honesty as well as love.
The Bible tells us to watch for Man’s religion. We can see it everywhere today. Make sure you pray & fast, to make sure you are under the right leadership. Always pray for your pastor, & for yourself. As we see so many spritiual leaders are getting sucked up in todays popularity contest. Make sure you know the scriptures so you & your family will be on the right path God has set before you.
Pray about everything in our life.
Tanya, you said “People get divorced all the time. I am not condoning this divorce, by no means, but it has become a sad reality in our nation'”
This is not the issue. Yes, people get divorces. I’ve unfortunately had two myself. But I’m not a mega church pastor making lots of money off of other people’s gifts. I can recover in private, and do what I need to do to fix my life and keep following God. Hopefully I did it right this last time!
Just because divorce happens, and happens to Christians, doesn’t mean it’s OK. Paul in the bible said only one reason is good. But even if done for this reason it is a painful, hurtful thing that takes a long time to recover from. The Whites aren’t going to step down from “ministry” but keep going. This is wrong. Regardless of whether I think they are “pulpit pimps” or not, they are handling at least this one thing wrong. They should be stepping down from ministry, go on hiatus, find someone respectable to whom they can be responsible, get help to recover.
As a Christian leader you can’t just do something wrong (either they are divorcing for no good reason, which is wrong, or for the right reason reason, which means one of them is cheating on the other) and go on your merry way. Tammy Faye and Jim Bakker did drop back out of the limelight while they sorted out their mess, but Jim Swaggart didn’t and he was wrong for that. And so are the Whites.
I was a charismatic for 17 years, then the Lord told me to get out of the charismatic church. This after I spent a few years studying the word for myself.
The more I read the Bible, the more I realized that the charismatic church today is in error.
Jesus TOLD me in my spirit to leave the church, and the word tells me to leave error.
I understand how people can be deceieved into thinking Paula White is a great woman of God. I’ve been there, admiring and idolizing famous ministers.
But I’m not there anymore. Now Jesus is my only idol, and I see these famous people as who they really are, people who poop (to put it bluntly.)
If someone has a healing ministry, then should that peron be exalted and awed over? No, it’s God’s grace that enables that ministry, so ALL GLORY goes to God.
I have been very grieved over ministers taking God’s glory and enriching themselves in the name of Jesus, so grieved that I pray about it alot.
Once I was in a charismatic meeting a few years ago and the preacher prophesied over me and said, “God knows that you are grieved over hypocrite preachers.”
It was like God was telling me, yes these ministers are hypocrites and DISCERNMENT is GOOD.
Discernment, correction, and rebuke are all good things.
Paula White, all I see on her website is Paula. Her ministry exalts her not Jesus.
I am thankful Jesus ripped me out of her mouth.
These famous, rich ministers are traps, snares of the fowler.
They are not in line with the Word.
Pastors, evangelists, ministers, I am not impressed with you or your titles. Jesus impresses me and I WILL NOT IDOLIZE YOU ever again.
Shame on these rich preachers.
Watch the video on youtube called Stop making my father’s house a marketplace and let it sink into your spirits.
Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, pray Paula and Randy step down from the ministry for a time of reflection, healing, and reconciliation. We must forgive, we must restore, if they are willing. They must be willing. If they are not, they will surely continue to fall.
Take a look at the sheer numbers of people being ministered to by Paula. They must be getting something out of it or they wouldn’t tune in, buy her books, support her ministry, etc. The anointing is without repentance. She and Randy are getting a divorce, which is a sin – so is gluttony, yet Christians aren’t spending hours judging John Hagee, TD Jakes, and countless local pastors who could lose a few pounds. Many pastors get divorced and go on to lead very successful ministries, they rarely “continue to fall.” Clarence McClendon has a fantastic word on this – he divorced, remarried much too quickly in many people’s eyes, yet, the anointing remains on him and his ministry. As long as these people are ministering to some type of an audience, they will continue to receive support from that audience. To those who are sitting in judgment, I assume you are not watching anyway or attending their events so their actions don’t really apply to you. Sin is sin, whether it is too much food, too much wine or leaving a marriage that isn’t working. Can God solve those problems. Of course, but He has chosen to work out his power through his created people! Through free will, we often make bigger messes and have to deal with the very painful consequences. Bill Clinton did not take time off from his day job to deal with his sin – most people simply are not in a financial position to do so – therefore pastors move on and continue to work their ministries just like everyone else – they are human.
Karen, people are not upset that certain leaders fall, they are upset because of the lack of honesty and transparency going on in church leadership. If a pastor goes before his/her congregation and admits his/her sin, the people can decide to forgive and continue their support. When pastors lie and deceive their “audience” as you say, people have the right to discontinue their support. A liberal seculiar view does not apply in the church. We are not talking about political characters. We are talking about the men and women of God and their responsibility to be an example. Sure people fall. God promises that if we will humble ourselves and repent He will heal our situations. The keys are a humble and contrite heart. When those two elements are missing, restoration can be hindered. He who hides his sin will not prosper.
The church is not a business. Jesus Himself threw out the money changers in His day. The standard in the five fold ministry is much greater than any political office or business venture. Ministry deals with eternity, while everything else will pass away.
The relationship between a man, a wife, and God is extremely more important than a man or woman’s relationship with food. Your comparison of the two, in my opinion, is of no merit. God takes these vows very seriously. Marriage is a mandate from God. My marriage is in importance second to only my salvation. Marriage is holy and ordained of God.
Church, continue to pray for the sanctity of marriage. It is of great importance no matter how frivolous some worldly ideals may suggest.
Father, help us to value and guard the precious things of your Kingdom. Please keep us from the mixtures of this world. We will know your voice and the voice of the stanger we will not follow. In Jesus Name. Amen.
Hello Karen,
Elijah had less followers than the prophets of Baal.
But Elijah was willing to point out the false doctrine of the prophets of Baal.
Paul and the Apostolic band were certainly outnumbered by Jewish church officials who denied the sufficiency of Christ; the sufficiency of the gospel.
Noah was certainly outnumbered Karen, and Jesus even said that many are called but few are chosen.
Jesus is outnumbered tremendously today:
Jesus claimed to be the only way to forgiveness; the door to eternal life; the only resurrection and the life.
Yet still today there are numerous competing ideas, and religious systems.
Karen, Joel Osteen has 30,000 following him, yet Joel has yet to tell his listeners they are bad sinners, unworthy people of any of the blessings of God. He even proudly declares that he does not use such terminology as sinners, sin, damnation. Though Jesus certainly did.
Karen, you posted, “Take a look at the sheer numbers of people being ministered to by Paula. They must be getting something out of it or they wouldn’t tune in, buy her books, support her ministry, etc. The anointing is without repentance”
Karen, do you still want to hold to that argument of greater numbers proving God is on the side of larger numbers necessarily?
Church, I have something I need your comments on. Today I believe a precedent was implemented in the case against the leader of the LDS cult leader, Jeff whats his name? He was found guilty on conspiracy to commit rape charges essentially holding him responsible for the rape of a 14 year old girl by a 19 year old first cousin. This leader was found to be responsible for the crime because he mandated the act. (And he deserves the verdict. He will be sentenced soon.)
Wow, this might be swinging the court room doors wide open to hold leadership accountable for all kinds of ministerial misconduct. Who knows what we may witness in the very near future in both criminal and civil courts regarding the abuses of church leaders.
This could bring the level of accountablility to the five-fold office needed in these last days. Due to recent events, we might think this is needed. But what about the down side?
I find it a shame that this could possibly happen due to the irresponsibility and negligence of some leaders, founders, etc. Instead of being governed by the word that these guilty ones preach, they will put the church in the position to be governed by secular authorities. What will happen then. Will we utimately be forced to accept divorce, abortion, pre-marital sex, adultery, money mongering etc in the church? The snow ball effect here is huge.
The enemies attack against the church, the people of God, is very very real. We must discontinue our support of organizations that would open up our churches to future criminal and/or civil complaints. We must hold ourselves to the highest of standards before the freedoms we enjoy are taken from us. Our spiritual, financial and physical support is what keeps these organization afloat. They can not continue without us. We will get exactly what we allow.
Grace is not an occassion to sin. It is the power of God that redeems us, sanctifies us, and provides us with the greatest of liberties in the Spirit…to be a vessel of righteousness, power, peace and joy.
If you have ears to hear, listen. If you have eyes to see, watch……and pray.
Please respond.
Please feel free to contact me by phone. 760-295-0305
SG, How do you know a sin was committed by the pastor unless you were in the room when he did it? Wouldn’t it then just be a rumor?
Sebsebbie,
There are other forms of evidence that are acceptable in church courts (testimony of 2-3 witnesses, documents). Sin usually leaves a trail.
So 2-3 witnesses saw this event happen? Sin leaves a trail and so do wolves.
Hi Sebsebbie,
Thank you for your response. I’m not sure which comment you are asking about so I’ll address two issues. Regarding my comment number 33, the facts of this case can be obtained if you google Warrens Jeff. This case has already been played out in court and a jury has found this FLDS leader guilty. I believe in our judicial system. Although it is not perfect, nothing is, I believe this man is guilty as charged. Read the evidence and you may agree or not depending on your affiliation with that organization.
As far as my earler comment regarding the pastor in Oceanside, California, the evidence of this man’s ministerial misconduct was given to me by sources close to him and the associate pastor who lost his wife because of the affair. Since 2004 numerous events have taken place that only point to this man’s guilt. He has been very crafty in his duplicty of character by delaying certain events as to not bring alarm to those who are not directly in knowledge of his immorality. Since I have witnessed the events of this debacle, I am not thrown off by the timeline as some might be if they are just now coming into some understanding about why things just don’t seem to be the way they are. If you are one that has some suspicion, all I can encourage you to do is ask the man for yourself. I think you’ll be intrigued by his response.
You are right I was not in the room, Thank GOD!! And I will never be in such a room. Nobody who calls on the name of the Lord should be caught in such a situation and no one should have to witness it in order for God to reveal the truth to them. Only one with a porno graphic imagination would even suggest that God would place an innocent person in that awful position. Just watching the outcome has been more than enough of a horror picture.
As far as being a wolf, well I can only respond to your bark and growl in one way BAAAAA, BAAAAA!! I know the voice of my father and the voice of the stranger I will not follow.
Did you hear about the lawsuit filed against ORU? We may see more of the same if church leadership does not refrain from various forms of scandalous, criminal, and fraudulant behavior. God is not mocked!! I’m not saying the ORU case is valid, what I’m saying is that if this can happen at ORU it can happen anywhere in mainstream churches denominational or non-denominational. I guess we’ll see for ourselves soon enough.
So why keep going to a church that you feel the pastor is decieving you?
I don’t think I implied that I am still going to that church. All but one of the pastoral staff, the top administrator, the pastor’s wife, and others left the church.
The problem today is that the deception is ongoing in our community. We are not just concerned for ourselves but for the community at large. If influence is transferred as we have been taught, people are potentially going to get hurt. Marriages have ended due to this situation. Unfortunately, some people follow blindly.
We have moved on with our lives, however, knowing that other people are being misled and placing their finances, families, and destinies in this man’s hands is troubling. There are those that recover from such usery, but we have also witnessed some devasting results in the lives of people we loved.
When a pastor marries a couple, one of them being his associate pastor, and then turns around and takes that bride for his own and gets her pregnant which results in the divorce of both couples, this is disheartening.
This is not a casual circumstance. It is abhorant.
For you were once in darkness, but now you are the light in the Lord. Live as children of light (for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) and find out what pleases the Lord. Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. But everything exposed by the light becomes visible. This is why it is said, ” Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead and Christ will shine on you.” Be very careful, then, how you live – not as unwise but as wise making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. Eph. 5:8-16
Paul is communicating to the people of God out of his concern for their well being. These concerns were also written in other epistles. No one misunderstood his intentions.
Only people that have something to hide are worried about being exposed. It is possible for sons and daughters to choose life over death, obedience over disobedience. If we are all destined to be help captive in sin, why would God give us a choice. Leaders should choose life for them and for the people God has intrusted to their care.
This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because thier deeds are evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come nto the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God. John 3:9-21
In the cases of gross ministerial misconduct, leaders should hold themselves accountable publically. People will then have the understanding needed to properly judge future actions of their leadership. When things are kept secret who knows whether or not continued ministry is from God or not. If genuine repentance is brought forth, including the turning away from the offense, than there is no need to lie to the public about one’s character. However, greed will deceive people into trusting in their own ability to manipulate the situation vs. trusting in the restorative power of Grace.
Hi Sebsebbie,
I’ve read and replied to your other postings on other sights regarding your concerns we’ve discussed here on this sight. I feel that for some reason you have taken these comments very personally and have become offended.
Please know that it is not my intention to hurt you personally and I ask you to forgive me for any offense.
It may not be beneficial for you to cruise the internet for information about certain people and then not be able to manage what is being said. It is possible that you may hear things that are contrary to what you’ve known or heard. These differing experiences and opinions other than yours may be difficult to process.
God bless you and yours richly.
You do not get Western Whoppers at McDonalds.
You cannot buy Oracle software at Microsoft.
You do not hear a Kanye West Song on a Fifty- cent album
UNLESS…………the two entities have an agreement.
We understand this perfectly in the corporate world.
Why do we suddenly miss it when it comes to church, the Bible and our behaviour as persons who claim to be Christians?
Now the last time I checked …..the Kingdom of Heaven has no agreement with the Kingdom of darkness…and never will.
So all this talk about ‘not judging’ and ‘not casting stones’ is
fine, but it is intellectually and morally dishonest to stop there. The same Jesus Christ we quote, also said “Go thy way and sin no more” and “The truth shall set you free”
So we can choose…………to say that the Whopper did not come from Mcdonalds…….or to say that it did and tell other people so as well…… we choose.
Paula chose and Randy chose. Bright, learned, influential folk who knew exactly what they were doing, and what the Bible said about marriage …..and they chose to go in the opposite direction.
If you stole my car, and went on a road that led directly over a cliff, I can forgive you, but you will be dead if you don’t turn around.
Actions and consequences.
“For there is nothing hid from the eyes of Him with whom we have to do”
“Be not deceived, God is not mocked, for whatsover a man soweth that shall he also reap”
Lord have mercy on me.
Dear Sister Paula ,
Jesus is calling you, stop ,look ,and ,listen.Wake up in the night ,he wants to talk to you.Jesus loves you and we do too. A lot of people are praying for you and your husband and family ,including, the people of God at tampa.Jesus is interceding,offering a chance to turn back humble to him and repent.Read psalm chptr. 1.Stand before the Lord Jesus ,He is waiting ,let it all go, he is worthy, because of what he did on calvary for us.It caused him alot of pain .Please preach about a redemption and a ressurected Savior.The Precios Blood of Jesus ,and the Love of God.The beauty of the world fades away but the Glory of the Lord remains forever.Praise God.It’s was satan’s intention when he deceived you to drag you to shame ,like he will do to any of us ,if we get careless,and forget to give Jesus the
Glory for everything daily.
Christians should examine their propensity of making “idols” out of “leaders”, such as Paula White and Benny Hinn, as well as many, many more. But these two don’t even bother wearing the “sheeps clothing” any longer. My pet dog has enough Spiritual discernment to run away from these two. Or, have they decided God was wrong and you can serve two masters, money and fame. They are a money making juggernaut, selling false hope and making obscene amounts of money off the people who can least afford it.
Christians, wake up!!!! We are called to examine all things Spiritual, not to be duped by fast talking, charasmatic snake oil salesmen…
If the concerned people of North County want to meet, please contact me at guinnfamily@cox.net.
Paula White is a user. I hope that she has to answer for all the damage she has done. I will never send any of this users aqgain. Count me out. I will help people near me. Lots of needs in our home area.
These and other sad scandals will continue to unfold until we get back to the preachng of the Cross. It is the instrument of death to the flesh llife. Without it, we will walk as mere men. Paul said, “I die daily” When is the last time you have heard this preached in the mega churches. Never judge televisionevangalism as God’s standard of success. For a good read check out “A Step Into Deliverance” by T. Pugh. It’s an engrossing autobiography about one man’s battle with and ultimate defeat over the spirit of jezebel. A real page turner!
I watched an interview with Paula White where she refused to answer very simple questions, and distorted the word JUST enough. It was very interesting.
‘Prosperity comes from within.’ Was one thing that she said, verbatim, that struck me hard. Nothing comes from within. Not without Christ.
Additionally, a common theme of her vague and non-sensical responses to very straight forward and easy questions was ‘perspective.’ She continually spoke of ‘perspective.’ Truth is independent of perspective. the word teaches us that there is one truth or there is no truth ..specifically in Deuteronomy.
We are told to judge them by their fruit. From her very vague answers that a seeming non-believer who was interviewing her was trying to get out of her strange ramblings and arm gestures, to statements that told us that her million dollar homes and clothing and so forth were just ‘preference.’
Exemplifying excess to the hurting and lost, and offering ‘conferences’ and ‘books’ that they can’t afford as a remedy, coupled with token hugs arranged conveniently in front of cameras..sends a disturbing message to believers and non-believers a like.
So, back to the judging by their fruit thing…
this is the fruit that I see, and I am judging accordingly. Double speak and vagueness do not walk hand in hand with an unburdened conscience.
The fact that she could not answer honest questions and was confusing, vague, sweetly argumentative and could not come up with very simple answers…spoke volumes to me.
I walked away from a bible college that was rife w/fellow students clamoring to effect the same image this woman projects. The snide, fake, mean, controlling, strange attitudes that came forth from those with whom I shared my studies was always prefaced with:
‘So Paula White/Joyce Meyer/Benny Hinn taught me….’
I had a lady tell me :
HOW DARE YOU TELL ME HOW TO TALK TO MY FATHER!
as she gestured wildly and yelled one day in class as we studied the scripture associated w/the lord’s prayer.
seriously.
I haven’t been back to church since I left that place, and Paula White and her followers don’t help the situation.
Well, the thing that I find that is really funny is how every other denomination is rich and flowing with money. We have major companies owned by jews, buddhists, and every other religion you can think of. No one says anything about them. The minute a child of the living God rises up with money they automatically judge. many of these preachers have there own businesses outside of church, what says they can not. Im sorry but I am tired of seeing people judge and limit God to how much his children can have here on earth. So when we go to heaven we are going to have riches but here on earth we cant have a good life. Im sorry but the word they kingdom come here on earth as it is in heaven and that entails everything of the kingdom. Including prosperity, health, and wholeness in every area of our lives. So insted of judging others and what they have we should go out and preach the kingdom of God to those who have never heard his word instead of trying to fix the ones that are already saved.
Sorry, but your post has fatal errors of logic.
No one is saying Christians should be poor. What people take issue with is when “pastors” get financially rich off the Gospel, or more likely a perversion of it.
Don’t you get it…. their theology is not about obedience & trust, but giving to get. They preach so you give, and they get. Get it?!
Christian business people, like non-Christian business people, produce a product (and the gospel is NOT a product) or service that benefits others. They make a different kind of investment.
As a pastor, I should not be poor (unless the people I serve are). I should be fairly compensated. If I’ve got assets in excess of $1 million, that would be extravagent compensation which should be going to help those in need or fund ministries of the church to build the kingdom.
I believe Christians to the likes of Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, etc. really do love Jesus, however their weaknesses, whether it is money, women, etc. had not been dealt with at the time. It is sin and the only way sin can be truly cleansed is through the purifying blood of Jesus Christ.
In the beginning, I believe Paula White, Juanita Bynum, Bishop Weeks, and others started out with godly intentions concerning ministering to the flock, however they became side-swiped by the money, fame, ect. Instead of offering Jesus to the people, they began offering flash, entertainment and flesh. I am all for the Lord’s people prospering, but let us not lose what is really important. The Gospel of Jesus Christ being preached to the lost and serving man as Jesus our prime example did; He did not come to be served, but to serve.
These days it is definitely about the money. I am a Church Administrator, and you would not believe what some of these pastors require to come preach the Word of God.
1)
1) Some pastors would first class plane tickets for their wives, and armorbearers
2)
I am sorry, for the interruptions, but I believe you see where I am going. I am saddened by all this because the world is going to hell in a hand basket and some of God’s people are fixated on who has the largest ministry, and who can preach the best sermon. Only what we do for Christ is going to last! We have to repent or God will remove His glory from us.
I agree totally with Cavman. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is to be preached, “simple full and free.” Some preachers are using the Gospel for their own selfish gain.
I have no problem with a pastor living well, however if all your sermons are focused on money, and more money, how are the people going to be saved?
Romans 10:14-15: “How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent?
In Phil 1 : 18 Paul wrote, “But what does it matter?” He is speaking of impure motives versus pure motives. “The important thing is that from every way, from false motives or from true Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.”
Paul is not giving insignificance to those who preach with false motives, but he is saying that compared to Jesus being preached the motives behind it are a secondary factor.
in the church we often use the expression, “Let’s keep the main thing the main thing.” In other words our main task in the church is to uplift Jesus Christ. To let him be central and take his message out to others that they may know and experience God’s love for them that they may know a personal experience with God through Jesus Christ. This is the main thing and we say, “Let’s keep that the main thing in our church.” There are so many other things we do and all are good and worthwhile, but we must be sure in our church that we keep Jesus Christ central. Let’s be sure people have the opportunity to hear that Christ loved them so much that he was willing to die for them. Christ was willing to give up his life for them. That is what Paul says is central. That Christ is preached. That Christ be honored is the central thing. Paul says weather it is false motives or pure, the important thing is that Christ is preached. That is what we need never to lose sight of. Paul is not giving insignificance to those who preach with false motives, but he is saying that compared to Jesus being preached the motives behind it are a secondary factor. Paul knows that the power of the gospel can reach the lost even if someone is preaching with false motives. Those who preached with false motives did not succeed in their goal of disturbing Paul. Paul rejoiced even though they preached with false motives. Paul looked beyond the negative and the things done to hurt him. He looked to the ultimate glory of God. The ultimate glory of God is that Jesus Christ is preached and people were coming to know Christ. Here is the comment that John Calvin gave about Paul’s attitude about those who preach the false gospel he said, “Paul rejoiced in the increase of the gospel. He may not have personally endorsed them. But the main thing was that Paul rejoiced that the gospel was proclaimed and that there was an increase in the preaching of the gospel.” The main thing that we need to have as the driving force of our life is to keep Jesus Christ central. We need to remember that when Jesus Christ returns all our motives will be exposed. So anyone who thinks they can get by with false motives needs to check their heart again. Are you serving God with pure motives?
quoted from :
http://bradbeaman.wordpress.com/2007/09/27/motives-the-problem-in-the-church/
The apostle Paul said that we are to judge those in the church, and God judges those outside. After all, judgment begins in the house of the Lord. If you don’t use biblical discernment, then error can, will, and does run rampant through the church!
How are we to judge those in the church? With righteous judgment, and the only way we can do that is to judge them by the truth and infallibility of God’s Word. If anything they teach does not agree completely with God’s Word, it is to be rejected.
Pure doctrine is very, very important. I’m not going to spend my valuable and very short time chasing after “my best life now,” and believing that “I’m all that,” when the Word of God tells me that my righteousness is as filthy rags, and that I should not lay up for myself treasures upon this earth, but to lay up teasures for myself in Heaven, where it is eternal and noncorruptible. These people tell us to do the exact OPPOSITE of what God’s Word instructs us to, and people swallow it hook, line, and sinker.
I pray that people would become lovers of truth…God’s truth. That they would study to show themselves approved, and that they would allow the Holy Spirit of the Most High God to lead them into all truth.
Amen!
please read this article:
http://nctimes.com/articles/2008/04/29/news/coastal/oceanside/nct24d2152364bf7fe9882574390066f.txt
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/northcounty/20080509-9999-1n9church.html
Many are building their own kingdoms in the name of the Lord for their own glory and prosperity. For all seek their own, not the things which are of Jesus Christ’s.
SEVEN times the Lord tells us, the church, in Revelation 2 & 3 to REPENT. SEVEN times.
For we must all be exposed before the judgment seat of Christ, that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to what he has done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men.
For he that sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap destruction; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
I am a Christian, born-again, Spirit-filled and a follower of Christ. I have been in several non-denominational churches and watched the same scenario played out in each. Pastors become inaccessible. They become full of themselves and power and money mongers. I don’t believe it is unreasonable to hold the leaders in the Christian church to a higher standard of morality. If we accept the lower standard, it will BECOME the standard. This has certainly played out again and again in our society as we have watched our morals deteriorate.
I also DO realize that churches must have money to pay their bills and I DON’T ascribe to a doctrine of poverty for churches, their pastors, or their congregations. You cannot help others if you have nothing to give.
However, it does not take long to investigate these individuals and learn that they have false credentials and live false lives (so why are we surprised when they divorce?).
I have been married for 35 years. In times when my marriage was failing miserably, I knew that God would not fail. I believed His Word and that His best was in obeying His Word. I also listened for His voice when I was uncertain about what to do. Often, this meant doing nothing at all except waiting on God. We have free will. Exercising this free will means that we have equal ability to make either the wrong decision or the right decision.
You MUST have your own relationship with Christ and God’s Word. Learn to hear God’s voice and He will help you discern the false prophets of this world. We don’t need to spend our time or effort judging these individuals or their followers. Judgment belongs to God.
I have found that Spiritually, God seems to bring His church to where they need to be at a particular time. Some of those posting here are upset that these “evangelists” are being financially and otherwise supported and that there is a lack of sound judgment by those individuals providing the support. They have not sinned by doing this. God will show them in good time what they need to see as they continue to pray and seek Him. There is nothing to be gained by criticising them, except further division of the church.
I don’t think I have EVER met two Christians that have agreed 100%. Paul warned against exactly this in the earliest days of Christianity (I Corinthians 1:10-15). I believe that every post that I have read has been posted by a Christian. Please show one another love and support in these very uncertain times.
Why is Paula White so important? She is not the message here, it is the blood of Jesus, which was shed for all of us, including Paula White. I personally do not get any thing from her preaching. She is just too animated and focused on herself. She preaches the idea that Christ can solve anything, thing gets a divorce after 18 yrs.? Where is Christ’s power when it comes to her marriage? Just does not cut it with me. In the bible is says God hates divorce and prpbably more so when it is two! christian preachers getting the divorce I would think. Paula seems to be full of fear to me. When one is healed of something in life they move on and build a new life, not build a life out of reminesing ones past. She really does not have a message to me and I can’t stand watching her. I think one should pray for her salvation in the Lord. Money and glamour does not always mean salvation.. or does it?
The Bible instructs, “Touch not my annointed..” That is not the exact scripture. However, please take heed. You guys are talking down about someone. A better question would be…WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO GET FOLKS CLOSER TO CHRIST? WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO SAVE SOULS? (Do you even know what that means?). I am broke. One day, I will be living in complete “prosperity” though. Thank God for you Paula White. I have never seen you in person, never gone to your church, but you have touched my life through your preaching and teaching. Regardless, of what jealous onlookers may say, thank God for your annointing.
If you all have a problem, go start your own ministry and do it the way the Lord leads you to do it. If not, then shut the fuck up! Amen!
Jesus is the Lord’s Anointed. End of story. In that OT story, David refused to kill the king, but God dealt with Saul in time.
We have been examining her theology and practice- it is not about whether or not people like her or are jealous of her. Sorry to see you actually resorted to personal attacks instead of dealing with the issues.
I understand what Christ has done for us. I’m not sure how you define prosperity. But I have seen how Paula White has butchered Scripture, so to depend on her for your knowledge of Christ and salvation is to live in a deprived state. I’m sorry.
Paula White uses her beauty and skillful no theology, no knowledge of Scripture, and bending to whatever culture she is in at the moment lifestyle to gain much for herself.
She has had her reward on earth. She’ll get none in heaven.
God will honor pastors who preach for vitually free in little churches who live by faith and the Word of God. Why should they not deserve the rewards of heaven?
Somehow God has allowed her to be beautiful and rich. She will always be defended by people who know not the Lord, but lust after her and admire her preaching what the majority want to hear.
She can be saved by giving everything to the poor. She won’t, but will be like the rich young ruler. Only God can judge. Christ is the only one to glorify. None of us is perfect–all come short of the glory of God in our evangelism.
Wonder why the most committed churches don’t attract beautiful women like Paula White? Most young adults will not attend a church that does not have drums, contemporary songs, entertainment, beautiful pastors, people with jobs and money as members, sports teams, political clout, and no discipleship requirements.
There are so many needs in every community. Making Paula or Benny or anyone else an “idol” and giving your money to them will never bring in the Kingdom. Give your time, your money, your prayers and your service to some church that really needs your resources.
Yes, only God can judge/determine whether or not she is saved. She may be, for it is only by faith in Christ as he is presented in the gospel.
We can examine if her life and doctrine match up with the gospel. There are areas of concern.
One problem is that churches which aren’t preaching the pure gospel are soaking up money from churches that could use them to further the kingdom. But some churches also put up artificial barriers by being archaic. They don’t understand that worldliness is not about musical style but heart commitments. Fundamentalists can be just as worldly in their attitudes toward money & beauty.
Ya i like the fact that Harper Valley PTA fits this here yall have a right to judge but cant admit your own problems acting like you all these goody goody perfect angels thats my problem with most christians it makes me sick they see a pastor on tv and get all over about them doing stuff wrong but when it comes to the one accusing wooo those who have no sin cast the first stone i but half of you on here hmmm ya i aint perfect i admit it i drank smoke drugs slept around so i would pray for pastor paula white instead oh but shes a tv preacher she has to be judge blah cry a river shes human ya we are supposed to judge and discern in spirit but i see in alot of comments more like cutting her down and belittleing thats not right anyways i love pastor paula white if it wasnt for her i be gone she has touched me alot into a more loving person for others when i never recieved it myself i never had father and i was abused so ptl for pastor paula i love her god bless
I’m letting the irony of this wash over me.
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Dont you all have something better to do with your time?
You know its funny no one ever mentioned Jesus how that
he said dont judge. The bible also says in the book of
James 1st chp if any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God
so stop judging people and try Jesus may the lord god sanctify your hearts and im done.
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
The New International Version, (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House) 1984.
If you take that in isolation “Do not judge”, perhaps you are guilty too since, like, you’re judging all these people.
We will all be measured. And we are to measure other’s actions that we might remove the speck from their eyes.
Yes, we are not to “judge” a person in the sense of heaven/hell. But we should evaluate whether or not actions are in accord w/the gospel, and address them accordingly. Right?
Senior Pastor Paula White is PREGNANT!!
Paula White on Twitter:
Hey guys .. Just landed in Denver! Join us tonight. I am ministering at The Potters House (Pastor Chris Hill) at 6:30pm! I am EXPECTING!
9:56 AM May 7th via Echofon
It is unclear what she is expecting. I would not assume a child, but perhaps significant ministry based on the context.
lol she twittered that to say she is expecting god to move not a baby i know her personally and i was there it was about expecting a move of god
Cheaters NEVER prosper…Christ will make SURE of that!
What worries me is that Paula makes it seem as if there is no consequence for what she and Randy have chosen. I never saw a moment of repentance, never heard a word of apology for violating the marriage promise that says, “Till death do us part.” I don’t get how Charismatic Christians can marry, divorce, remarry, and so on, and not think they have not damaged their spirits.
What happened to commitment? What happened to keeping a promise? What happened to sticking to a thing and seeing it through?
My belief is that Randy and Paula’s notoriety or fame got too big for one marriage to sustain. You rarely see a successful marriage between two superstars. The egos preclude it, because a successful marriage requires one partner to choose to submit to the other in cases of conflict; superstars don’t know how to submit. They only know how to shine.
Paula White’s FB photo album has several photo shoots in it. Why does a woman of God who supposedly lives to preach the Gospel need photo shoots with upwards of 80 pictures in them? Apparently, Paula suffers from self-esteem issues and is still trying to prove how worthy she is.
Like I have said to others, you can dress modestly and still not convey a modest spirit. You can wear a dress and still look the part of a hooker or other victimizer. Paula dresses to draw attention to herself, not to God.
I think maybe some of her appeal comes from the fact that she was a victim as a child. The sadness is that she hasn’t allowed herself to be healed from that, and that is evident in her attempts to be seen as beautiful, contemporary, and fashionable. She should instead be pointing the people to God and to HIS Glory, not her current outfits or mega-high heels.
It is sad to see how far she has gone. I pray her eyes will be opened to the healing she needs and that she will seek God’s face for her own needs.
3 years later this matter still troubles me. The church of God has stopped preaching the Good News of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the World by whose blood we are washed clean by. We have forgotten the cross, ressurection and saving grace of God. The spirit of whoredom is prevelant and taking over. We have priced men and locked Christ in a closet.
We preach money, power and use wordly means to call the multitute into the kingdom but at what cost. We misqoute scipture or select a passage without fully understanding what it means. The Holy Spirit is no longer guiding us but we have allowed men to tell us that the Scriptures say without reading them for ourselves.
We all have faults and we need to depend on the Lord Jesus Christ to cleanse us, He needs to be the Author and Finisher of our Faith. The two preaches need to repent and turn back to Jehova God, forsake the world and be good stewards to this precious Word of Life.
That’s an over generalization. But certain movements associated with “Christianity” certainly have. Other movements are focused on the gospel, defending historic Christianity.
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